tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8507136945842934293.post5973153142026514077..comments2023-09-21T06:15:03.099-07:00Comments on Conjugate Visits: Comma-dyJune Casagrandehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00363096837053080969noreply@blogger.comBlogger2125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8507136945842934293.post-90516740840475224842008-06-30T13:22:00.000-07:002008-06-30T13:22:00.000-07:00* ". . . commas aren't meant to indicate pauses"Hu...* ". . . commas aren't meant to indicate pauses"<BR/><BR/>Huh? This is one of those statements that could be basically semantic. So, without hearing her full explanation, I can't assert in clear terms what is now just my suspicion: She's a dingus.<BR/><BR/>* "short introductory phrases less than five words don't need commas"<BR/><BR/>A short introductory phrase with fewer than six words doesn't necessarily need a comma, either. Strunk & White is actually one of my favorite sources on this one, but they don't go so far as to put a number on how many words are officially "short." That question is usually one best assessed by the writer.<BR/><BR/>* "more commas are appropriate--or at least acceptable--in academic writing than in business"<BR/><BR/>I gotta wonder: What's her source on this? If this is her impression and she's basing it her own extensive experience in dealing with academic writing, then I guess I would take her word for it. But I wonder whether she's, well, talking out her backside.<BR/><BR/>* "the declining use of the comma is perceived to be a function of economy"<BR/><BR/>Ah, the wiley use of passive sentence structure. So slick it almost makes us forget to ask, "Perceived by WHOM?"<BR/><BR/>* "ironically, a comma is required before the conjunction in a final item of a list"<BR/><BR/>I don't take a position on this one. I was raised in AP style, where the serial (or Oxford) comma is ommitted. In Chicago style, that extra comma is included. Most academics agree that comma is a keeper. But it drives me nuts when someone goes around telling people that something is "wrong" when in fact it's a perfectly defensible style choice. If it's safer in legal situations, why not just say so and leave it at that?<BR/><BR/>Lordy. Why must people run around talking about this stuff in silly absolutes?<BR/><BR/>I will often look back at a sentence I've written and realize that it's much more readable without commas I originally included. I think a more streamlined sentence, if you will, is in vogue. But I wouldn't put it the way she did.<BR/><BR/>Regarding your organization's need for a style guide, you could kind of informally start one. You could send out an e-mail to colleagues and say, FYI, Joe in legal just told me that we always abbreviate "Association" in proper names as "Assn." I'm going to jot that down on a pad on my desk along with other stuff I learn and I'll pass it along to anyone who's interested.<BR/><BR/>That way, you're not appointing yourself the style guru but offering to provide the service of documenting the decision-makers' preferences.<BR/><BR/>Then again, maybe that wouldn't be kosher in your circumstances. Just a thought!<BR/><BR/>- JuneJune Casagrandehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00363096837053080969noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8507136945842934293.post-5827264619629551702008-06-30T12:49:00.000-07:002008-06-30T12:49:00.000-07:00Yeah, that was too casual. ;-) I'm jealous, but yo...Yeah, that was <B>too</B> casual. ;-) I'm jealous, but you've earned it and you're entitled to a little name dropping. Hey, since you're buds with Paula, can we expect to hear you in the "Not My Job" segment of "Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me"?<BR/><BR/>I took a writing class a few months back at my present job (it's cool that they offer such a class, but I'm disappointed that we have no style guide which, I think, an organization our size needs) and one of the things that kept tripping up most of us was that, according to our instructor, commas aren't necessary as often as we think they are. This was particularly a problem, as far as I could tell (but, of course, I'm biased), for those of us with an above-average grasp of grammar. Actually, she might have made that observation herself.<BR/><BR/>Here are a few key points I remember from her guidance (not about commas generally but with regard to their changing frequency):<BR/><BR/>. . . commas aren't meant to indicate pauses<BR/>. . . short introductory phrases less than five words (e.g., "After we all screamed") don't need commas<BR/>. . . more commas are appropriate--or at least acceptable--in academic writing than in business<BR/>. . . the declining use of the comma is perceived to be a function of economy; every comma takes up valuable space :Joel rolls eyes:<BR/>. . . ironically, a comma is required before the conjunction in a final item of a list (where I had always been taught it should be omitted); apparently this has something to do with legal clarity<BR/><BR/>It more-or-less makes sense, but I'm still a bit suspicious and on some points quite unconvinced. The fallout for me is that my comma use has become increasingly erratic, whereas before it was more consistent, even if, by contemporary standards, excessive. Indeed, I suspect I've made several comma errors in this comment (not that there are no other grammar errors; I'm sure there are plenty of all sorts).<BR/><BR/>But our grammarian didn't go so far as to suggest that commas are becoming obsolete, just that their population has declined. What you said about the teacher.Joelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05550742712966484303noreply@blogger.com